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Criminal reputation

posted by Kamenes

Kamenes
Posts: 61
Criminal reputation 1 of 9
July 20, 2026, 9:59 a.m.

So a while back, I got some criminal rep in a way I considered accidental/unintended - i.e., swung a sword once at a ruffian NPC in the White City who had been punching me a lot. (Even asked him to stop first multiple times out of IC verisimiltude, lol.) The fact it was self-defense and it happened in an ICly unpoliced part of the city made me think it didn't make sense, so I bug-reported it.

And then I never thought about it again, pretty much... 

...but lately I realized it might be coloring some previously inexplicable-seeming things that have happened to me ICly, if people are looking up Kamenes' rep and seeing him labeled a criminal. And it's also been coming up in RP as a fact (e.g., the Lion Guard will treat you as a criminal/call you a criminal if you fight back against an assault). 

So I was wondering if we could get an official call on this. IS it considered illegal in Omrazir to defend yourself with a weapon, and the criminal rep is legitimate? Or are we all totally overinterpreting a bug? And on a trickier note, should you be able to accrue public-facing criminal rep for doing so in an area where the law essentially holds no sway?

 

July 20, 2026, 9:59 a.m.
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Rakim
Posts: 80
Re: Criminal reputation 2 of 9
July 21, 2026, 11:58 p.m.

Great questions, very curious to know about the potential lawlessness of the White City in particular.

On this same subject, I've found myself thinking a lot lately about how it would be really nice to have access to the laws of Omrazir somewhere to refer to. But I imagine that'd be a huuuuge job to put together. Unless that already exists somewhere and I'm just clueless, in which case, please enlighten me!

July 21, 2026, 11:58 p.m.
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Ighlaf
Posts: 249
Re: Criminal reputation 3 of 9
July 22, 2026, 12:55 a.m.

I'd inquired a bit about that a while ago and got linked to this post https://www.songofavaria.com/forum/game_help/topics/542/ 

And it sounds like it all needs some tweaking. My character def has a some criminal points from defending themselves. I think also disguises not defraying those points building either.

One thing I recall is if sneaking and getting spotted by guards, that adds a point.

I am entirely curious about what laws there are. Like, do we have no shoes no shirt no service? No pants gets arrested for public indecency? Uh, noise ordinance?

 

July 22, 2026, 12:55 a.m.
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Mathias
Posts: 19
Re: Criminal reputation 4 of 9
July 22, 2026, 7:55 a.m.

My own personal feeling on this is that ACAB and that's what gets conveyed in RP/guards treating everyone who isn't rich and important terribly, and not some reflection of criminal rep, which I think most everyone (player characters) has at this point?

To contribute a single small data point to the rep discussion: ONE single instance of failed sneaking (with no NPC guards in the room, just in an area marked public, but also I should note in the White City) gave me TWO points of criminal rep. It's alpha, I'm sure the systems will be refined and expanded at some point, but I'm personally not trying to overthink it for now given that as far as I can tell, there's not yet any differentiation made in the publicly available reputation (if you ask about someone's reputation codedly, it'll be described as "they have a reputation as a criminal" whether they have 1 point of criminal rep or 500 points, whether their sole crime was failing to sneak or they're a career criminal - please correct me if I'm wrong here, but this is what I've seen, almost everyone seems to have this tag currently! Thus why I'm handwaving it as just an alpha thing).

Edited to add: another data point, have been naked in public rooms with no apparent consequence :]

July 22, 2026, 7:55 a.m.
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Kamenes
Posts: 61
Re: Criminal reputation 5 of 9
July 22, 2026, 8:44 a.m.

Ooh, okay, so what I'm taking from this overall is that people are generally not RPing a few points of criminal rep as a meaningful thing. Given alpha, I think is probably the ideal approach - I just wanted to make sure I wasn't alone in largely disregarding this.

(I don't have high enough skills/stats to successfully inquire about people's reputation and had no idea EVERYBODY had criminal rep, lol). 

The larger question of what's legal is still interesting, IMO, but less immediately relevant with the understanding the hardcoded rep is largely handwaved. 

 

July 22, 2026, 8:44 a.m.
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Mistsparrow
Posts: 222
Re: Criminal reputation 6 of 9
July 22, 2026, 9:33 a.m.

Alas, there is no written up code of laws for Omrazir or the Sirdabi Caliphate more generally. Someday I will have time to seriously work on lore stuff again, but still more alas and also alack, that time is not now. :(

As pof Ighlaf and Matty write, there is a lot of work to be done on the law enforcement and reputation code, which are still in a pretty basic (and yes, sometimes buggy) state. The White City, while technically not beyond the law, would tend to be pretty much left to its own devices, and there shouldn't be any negative reputation incurred from self-defense. On the other hand, just spending any significant amount of time in the White City should affect one's reputation to some degree, and even if a person didn't gain a reputation as a criminal they *should* gain one as a lowlife or part of an overall Less Desirable class of citizens! That said, I don't know of any instances where actively-played NPCs have treated any PC differently on account of reference to their coded reputation. 

Nevertheless, immediate self-defense aside, it can generally be said from an IC standpoint that it's frowned on for citizens to take the law into their own hands on city streets and more public spaces in general, such as marketplaces, parks, plazas, etc. These are both in theory and practice under the direct legal jurisdiction of the Lion Guard and/or whatever city watch organization is present (if any), in Omrazir's case the Customs Inspectors.

In neighborhoods like Dampstone Close or the Ferenghi Quarter or wherever else, it's a somewhat different story. While still under the jurisdiction of the law, much of the immediate enforcement of these laws is left to the residents themselves. In many cases these neighborhoods have what is essentially their own neighborhood watch made up of locals that helps to keep order. These watch groups might take care of such things as removing intruders, apprehending thieves, stopping vandalism, and a number of other relatively minor issues, but especially in the case of more serious crimes they will typically turn the perpetrator over to the authorities.

Neighbors also keep watch on one another's behavior, and may bring people in their neighborhood to court for various moral infractions such as adultery, spousal abuse, immodesty, dishonest business dealings, excessive noise, alcohol consumption, or general public disorder. Obviously one's standards for these things will vary somewhat from one neighborhood to the next. Most people who are brought to court will stand before a qadi and have a chance to present their case to a jury. Punishments more typically would involve fines, corporal punishment, behavioral restrictions, or various forms of public shaming than any kind of prolonged imprisonment, except in the case of serious crimes. 

Overall, law in Omrazir is a mix of Azadi law, based on moral and ethical standards and some more general legalism addressed in the Perfected Song, and caliphal law that basically covers anything else. Individuals belonging to minority religious groups may in some limited instances be allowed to govern the behavior of their own members, particularly within their own neighborhoods, but no one is considered as standing entirely outside of Azadi/caliphal law.

P.S. MATTY THE BARBARIAN, being naked or indecently exposed should definitely net you some negative consequences even if it's not coded that way, SO NOW I AM WATCHING YOU.
 

July 22, 2026, 9:33 a.m.
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Mathias
Posts: 19
Re: Criminal reputation 7 of 9
July 22, 2026, 10:14 a.m.

July 22, 2026, 10:14 a.m.
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Mistsparrow
Posts: 222
Re: Criminal reputation 8 of 9
July 22, 2026, 10:41 a.m.

(Not animated, USE YOUR IMAGINATION AS TO HOW THIS ENDS.)

July 22, 2026, 10:41 a.m.
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Kamenes
Posts: 61
Re: Criminal reputation 9 of 9
July 22, 2026, 10:43 a.m.

Matty really living down to the Barbarian Allegations here.

Who else would be naked in public

definitely not me discovering you have to wash every item of your clothing after tanning (logical, diabolical)

July 22, 2026, 10:43 a.m.
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